Justin Andreas | The Moment You Stop Negotiating With Yourself

Justin Andreas is someone who has repeatedly tested the limits of both mind and body. An endurance athlete who has completed 100-mile ultramarathons and taken on brutal endurance events in sub-zero temperatures, Justin knows what it means to keep moving forward when everything inside you is telling you to stop.

In our conversation, we explore what endurance really teaches you about yourself — the mental battles that unfold when fatigue sets in, the discipline required to keep going when conditions turn hostile, and the quiet resilience that is built one step at a time. Justin shares what it takes to prepare for these extreme challenges and the mindset required to endure hours, sometimes days, of discomfort and uncertainty.

But this conversation goes far beyond endurance sport. We talk about identity, perseverance, and the deeper lessons that come from deliberately stepping into hardship. Because the real transformation doesn’t happen at the start line or even the finish line — it happens in the moments where you decide you’re not done yet.

It’s a powerful reminder that the limits we believe in are often far further away than we think.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Every person reaches moments in their life where the path they've been walking no longer challenges the person they're becoming. Those moments can be uncomfortable, even confronting. But today's guest understands that better than most. Justin Andreas is an endurance athlete, ultrarunner, and active member of the US military, who has spent years pushing the limits of what the human mind and body can endure. But what fascinates me about Justin isn't just the miles he runs, it's the mindset behind them, the willingness to leave behind one identity, step into uncertainty, and rebuild himself through discipline, discomfort, and relentless forward motion. In this conversation, I want to explore what happens when a person chooses challenge over comfort and what endurance can teach us about identity, resilience, and who we really are when the road gets hard. Justin, welcome to the turning point. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

That was a heck of an introduction.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I used to record the introductions separately and go straight into the podcast with my guests. The introductions were slightly more polished, but I found it's so much better to do it with the guests because it fires them up for the podcast ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah, yeah, I liked it. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

And I think with the fact that you're dialing in from Alaska time at 5 30 in the morning, you need all the firing up you can get.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

I got my go-juice right here, so we're good to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

So just for a bit of context, so I'm on TikTok. So are you? Um our paths have crossed, and I I I really resonated with your with your posts. I love the positivity that comes out in them. I love the fact it's it's just ordinary, normal person cracking on, pushing themselves through, even when it's minus 30 and you're out there running with your spikes on. I I just loved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah, it's uh it's it's fun. You gotta have you gotta have fun with it because no one wants to go out when it's 30 below uh and you know get a run in. But you gotta live, you know, you gotta live the life you're given. And so I'm I'm stationed in Alaska. I've been here for four years almost. And you know, you just gotta give what life gives you and uh have fun with it. And so I've I've met other fellow runners that don't take the uh don't take the weather and they get out and have fun and run. And so, you know, you have to, but it does suck sometimes. It's much easier to stay in bed, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Some of the um and I've talked about this on other pod podcasts before, some of the best training sessions you do are the ones where the weather is awful and you have to push yourself through. And that that's where the word the phrase the turning point came from. When your subconscious is saying, stay in bed, it's warm. Why on earth would you go out running? But you take control, you say, No, I'm going out. And when you get back, you feel great.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, always. A friend of mine who's also a runner has this saying, he said, It's hard PT, it's doing those hard PT days, the days that it's last year me and him ran uh a 15 miler and it was 40 below. We were just out there, we were suffering together, we were on a hard PT day. Neither one of us really wanted to do it in 15 below, but you know that's what that's what we did. And so, like putting yourself in those situations where you don't want to run, I feel like you gain the most benefit, not only physically, but mentally from them.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I agree. So, my my daughter, she's 13 now, uh, she does athletics um and they run right through the winter as well. And she loves going in the summer because it's nice, warm summer evenings, she can mess around with her friends and enjoy it. But in the winter, um, she's often pushback. But I said, No, no, you've got a commitment, you've got a place, you're going. And when she's got back in the car afterward, she said, you know, I feel good for doing that. It was horrible at the time, but I feel good for doing it. I'm I'm a hard parent. Right. So I've got a few questions uh that we're gonna fire through and see where the conversation goes. Um so let's let's start with with identity, first of all. So before endurance became such a defining part of your life, who were you and what did your world look like then?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Well, I've sp I've spoken on this often and you know, through uh TikTok, Instagram, and then even on other podcasts. I I used to be a a bodybuilder. I was I was so obsessed with lifting weights and getting as big as I possibly could. It it's funny when you you go bodybuilder turn endurance athlete, but uh it just takes uh two separate role roads. But yeah, I was uh I was obsessed with lifting. I lifted, you know, I started lifting in high school and all the way to my 30s, uh lifting weights, and you know, yeah, I was I was a big dude and I loved every bit of it, but I just started getting bored with it. And so that's you know, th through a couple years and different things, that's where running came in. But um, yeah, my identity at that point was it was nothing but just lifting weights and trying to get as big as I possibly could.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Did you still do the weightlifting?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I do, yeah. I still weightlift, I love it. I did get off of it for a while when I first got into running, and I realized that there is a absolute place in lifting weights and running, um, and they they complement each other very well. And so I continued and picked it back up the last couple years, and I've really found joy in lifting again to to different styles of lifting, more runner-based lifting. I still do like my heavy squats, deadlifts, bench, but I I found that doing like Bulgaring split squats, so you never do those as a bodybuilder. But they're the single leg isolation type moves are very beneficial for you know getting recovery during a long run, building speed for for the marathon, all of those are are compounding based off uh the weights that you lift. And I found that they complement each other very well. And so yeah, I've definitely picked back up in in lifting weights.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

And there's definitely a place for um aerobic fitness and endurance and strength training as well. Um, there was a a report that came around. Um, you know, people who are physically strong lift weights and train into their 50s and 60s, and who run and do cardio exercise as well are likely to live longer than people who either just do strength training or just do the endurance.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, no, I I fullheartedly agree with that. Maybe not to the extent of what I do, but uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So I um I I I had my VO2 max measured recently and um at a really fairly decent score. Uh and the guy was saying, you know, if you really want to focus on marathon running and endurance and get your time down, you really need to slim down a bit. I mean, I'm not big, I go to the gym, I work out, I do three to four sessions a a week. I love lifting weights, and and it's again, it's part of my identity is being physically strong. But I I wouldn't want to kind of slim down and lose muscle tone because again, for me, part of my identity is it is you know having a six pack and having a defined chest and arms, and and it's quite difficult to lose that.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I d I definitely don't have a defined uh six pack and chest.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

So difficult to keep the six pack though at our at our age.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

It's uh Yeah, I I enjoy the food side of ultra running a little bit too much, I think. But I used to I used to care a lot about physical image when I was lifting weights. You know, that's kind of a a big piece of being bodybuilder is is physical image. And I found when I started running more that um I found to essentially love my body more. And so now it now it's just like I can lift all of this weight. I can run a hundred-mile race. I have a I have a pretty young daughter. I can lift my daughter, carry my daughter. We just did four days in Disney last week, and I was carrying my daughter pretty much the whole time. We pushed her in a stroller, but when you're riding the rides, waiting in line, you're holding her, and it's just like just thinking back, like, man, I'd I've lived my entire 39-year life up to this point lifting weights, and like now it's all coming to an end, or not to an end, but to this is this is the full front right here. Like, this is what you're training for. And so uh, but in saying that, I I definitely do not have a sense.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

I was talking with one of my uh friends in the gym that that particularly as a man, you know, that belly fat and the uh fat around your your back, it's the opposite of money. So it's so m money is very difficult to get, but very, very easy to lose, especially if you're going to Disneyland. But but fat around your belly, it's so easy to get. You know, I feel like if I just have one bad day, a few too many drinks or a curry or something, it's like, what's going on here? It's like it takes you weeks to get rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yep, yep, yep. That's fine. That's that's a very true statement.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

So I just want to move on to a turning point moment. So every person has a moment where something shifts internally. So what triggered the move from lifting weights to actually running long distances for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Well, I I kind of had a bit of a transition point. So I like I said, I was kind of getting tired and bored with the monotony of lifting weights every single day, the same routine week in and week out. And I had uh a couple friends that I was working with that were into CrossFits, kind of when CrossFit really was starting to gain some momentum. And I I thought it was interesting that they're they're doing these compound movements. Uh, at the same time, they're doing some endurance style stuff, and I thought it was just a really good mixture. And I I was like, Yeah, let me give this a shot and try to make this my routine now. Still doing the weightlifting and and all of that, but I'm throwing some cardio in there. Uh I I found that I was getting I was getting too out of shape, which is is funny, but the cardio falls way down when you're when you're lifting weights. The weightlifting is the priority, and so I wanted to add a little bit of endurance back into my life, and so I thought that maybe that would be a good mixture. And I did it for about a year, and I really didn't like it. I hated every bit of it. And uh there was a half marathon coming up. Um, I was stationed in Guam at the time, and in the it was the Guam International Marathon. And so I thought to myself, I wonder how long it would take me to train for the half marathon. So I went up to a buddy who is a semi-pro triathlete, and I asked him, I said, Hey, how long would I have to train to run the half marathon next year? And we're about four weeks out, a month out from the the marathon this year. And he's like, What do you mean next year? You can run it this year. You're in good enough shape. I had not run probably more than like two miles, I would say, ever. Maybe, maybe a 5k here and there, but not anything really substantially long. And, you know, the thought of like in a month I'm gonna run a half marathon is just absolutely mind-blowing. But he built me a little four-week training plan. Um, now, now do saying that I am going in with fitness. I'm not, it's not just straight off the streets. I am I'm a I'm pretty fit at this point. So, but he built me a little training plan. I got through the training plan, and I think I ran like a a 250 three-hour half marathon, and I was over the moon. I thought that that was the greatest thing in the world. I was like, I loved every bit of this. From there, my set my goals to that next year I was gonna run the full marathon, and I hated every bit of it when I ran the marathon, and the marathon wasn't for me, and but through podcasting, you got to find things to kind of entertain yourselves when you're out on those long runs by yourself. And I found podcast and found out that there's people that do beyond the marathon and they do it on hiking trails, and I thought that that was a super interesting thing. And so when I didn't really care for the marathon, I set my sights on an ultra marathon and then man, I don't know, that was almost 10 years ago, so here we are. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Some of the um some of your videos look look at look insane. One of the uh the races that you did recently where there's a mixture of skiers, bikers, and um and runners, and then I think the the shortest one was like three days, the longest one can go up to to 30 days or something, is it?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, so that's the ITI. It's the um I did a rod trail invitational. So they have a hundred and fifty, a three hundred and fifty, and a one thousand mile race that you race distance that you want to take. And it's you can run bike or ski the ski the race. Yeah. Have you done one of those? I've not done I've not done that race. I have done multiple run bike ski races. Uh recently I just did a 50k run bike ski, which is 31 miles. I have a 45 miler next weekend that I'm gonna be doing, and I've done a 100-mile run bike ski.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Wow. Okay. So talk us through that a little bit, about how how that what how that went.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah, the 100 mile. So with these races, they're they're very remote. They don't have access to you don't have access to people. So if you're familiar with the the the typical ultra marathon platform, is you have an aid station every six to ten miles. If you have a crew, a lot of times they can go to all those aid stations. Well, a a winter endurance race is kind of what these are what these are known for. You have checkpoints instead of aid stations. The checkpoints are 20 to 30 miles apart. Some of them, like in the ITI, the first checkpoint's like 70 miles. So they checkpoints are real far apart from each other. You're not allowed to have crew, you're not allowed to have pacers. You do the entire race self-supported by yourself. So you do team up with other, if you're running, or team up with other runners and you kind of run the thing together, just help each other out. But yeah, for essentially, you're out there by yourself. And so everything that you have on you is what you have to have to survive the race. So if the race is like that ITI 350, you get 10 days to do it. You know, as a runner, that's 35 miles a day that you have to do to be able to complete the race. And so, and and this is not 35 miles of running on the road. This is 35 miles of running on snow, ice, frozen rivers. You're navigating your whole the whole trip yourself. Like there's no no one goes out and course marks a thousand mile course, even the hundred milers, no one goes out and course marks a hundred miles. So it's you're out there, you're navigating at the same time as trying to survive. Everything that you have on you is what you have to survive the race. So it's such a complete different mindset. It's it's very interesting, and it was such a cool experience. I don't think that I'll do a hundred-mile race of that stature again just for the fact that like I enjoy having the crew, I enjoy having the pacers and seeing people every couple, couple, six, ten miles. So um, it gets lonely on those 25 mile stretches in between checkpoints.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, and throw navigation into the mix as well, and that that's another dimension. I mean, back in when I first got into work, because I actually did some ultra runs myself before I had all my my health issues in 2020. Um, and I did um from one side of the UK to the other, it was um 70 miles. Um and it was in the summer, and you would have thought it would have been nice weather, but it was the um 2012. Anyone who can remember the UK in 2012, it rained non-stop for months. Um, some of the course was flooded. I mean, it wasn't cold, which was the main thing, but I can remember it was about midnight. I'd got lost and was in the middle of some dodgy housing estate, and my and I'm I've got my head torch on, I'm starting to kind of hallucinate a little bit, and having to like get the map out and try and read as well. It's just you know, when as you say, when you're on a Marx course, it's like run, follow the arrows, get to the checkpoint, get some food and carry on. But but navigating as well, you know, particularly in in that environment when going wrong could could almost be the difference between life and death if you if you're stuck out there and you haven't got the right kit.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

So and we had we actually had really favorable temperatures the year that I did the hundred miler. It was it was thirty, forty in in the during the day and and it got like negative five at night. But uh the year before the year before I did the race, they had a blizzard come through and it was white out conditions and they were using their hiking pulse to figure out where the trail was. If it went off if it went off, then that means that they were off course, and so they were the trail is hard packed, but uh it's just it's wild. Out here in this the wilderness out here, you never know what the environment's gonna give you.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

So 100 miles, what's that distant distance actually represent to you just beyond the physical challenge?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

I tell people all the time that in if you have done a hundred mile, you'll understand this, but it's something like no other thing that I have ever done in my life. And I've run hundred Ks, I've run 100K all the way down, 50K marathon half. I've done all the distances, and there's nothing like a hundred-mile race. It's not, it's there, it's not if things go wrong, it's when things go wrong. How do you overcome them? Because a lot of times when things go wrong, it's not physical things, it's mental things. You're gonna come into lows, you're gonna get out of your lows and go back to highs, they're gonna fall again. The weather's gonna affect things. It's just all of these things that you can't control are gonna be pushing against you to not finish the race. And a lot of times it it affects people when it gets to people. A hundred-mile race has a finish an average finish race of 50%. So yeah, but it is nothing in my life that I have experienced comes close to crossing the finish line of a hundred mile race and knowing that you just achieved what very, very, very few people have ever done.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah, it's incredible. So a friend of mine here locally, I actually did a podcast with him as well. He's um he likes to put his body through through some endurance. He he rode the Atlantic with a friend a couple of years back, and then the year he to after he finished that, we're like, Oh, I think Pete's gonna have a bit of a quiet year this year, surely. But no, he said, I'm gonna run four 100-mile races. So there's there's um there's a series of races in the UK, and if you run all four hundred mile races, you get a special medal. Um, I think it's a belt buckle actually that you get, and uh, and he did that as well. It's it's absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

So yeah, it's uh it's tough, it's hard to train for them because either there's no you take like marathon training, and marathon training is is about speed, endurance, and being able to push your body into zone zone eight, zone nine for a few hours, right? And so where hundred-mile training is trying to be able to stay in zone two, zone three for a way longer, obviously, but it it's such a different mindset of training. I do walk training because when my body falls apart 60, 70, 80 miles and I am forced to walk, am I proficient at walking? Do I understand how to walk a 15, 16 minute mile when I'm 70, 80 miles in? I'm not a professional athlete. I I will admit 100% that I walk during my 100-mile races and I walk a lot of it, but it's it's practicing your walk. You're gonna be hiking up mountains in a lot of these races. Are you proficient at hiking? And so I it's you know, when marathon training, you do you run. You run, oh, you have your easy runs, your long runs, your hard runs, but the the difference in that in a hundred mile race or even other longer ultra ultra races, you have to be able to train different assets uh of what you're gonna be doing out there. And so I think that's what what varies so much when it comes to like ultra running versus like marathon running.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, I I would agree with that definitely. And w when you are deep in an ultra, when your body's tired, when your your mind is, you know, you we get that voice in the head, your mind's negotiating with you, trying to look for for ways out, and that finish line still feels so far away. What actually keeps you moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Uh it usually depends on where I'm at at that time of the race. Um, I have the saying, forgive me if I can cuss on the podcast, but I have the saying, it says, uh, in the first half, don't be a hero, meaning don't go out too fast, don't do stupid stuff. You know, you've got a long way to go. So for that first 50 miles, take it easy, chill, hang out. And in the second half, don't be a bitch. And that needs no explanation. Don't be a bitch. And a lot of times, if my wife is there, or even if she's not, and she knows that I have um cell phone service during the race, she'll text me when it's the middle of the night. Don't be a bitch. Love it. And I and it's just it's such a little mindset trigger that's just like, you know what? I've been here before. I know how this feels. I'm gonna come out of it. I'm I'm a couple hours away from the finish line. Let's go do it. I heard a uh a quote recently and it really stuck to me. And I haven't I haven't raised since I heard the quote, but it's uh it it says, don't or it says, stick to the plan, not your mood. And I thought that was such a great quote when it comes to ultra marathons because we have a plan in place. Stick to the plan, not your current mood. Because your mood's gonna ebb and flow, but the plan just stays straight. And I thought that was such a great quote. I'm gonna I'm gonna put that into into my training, I'm gonna put that into my racing going forward.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Love it. Stick to your plan, not the mood. I will I'll I'll use that in my my uh uh races uh going forward. Because it's true though. Yeah, yeah. I mean I it is in um last year I did a um my first challenge from after regaining my fitness in 2024 with a half iron man, and I can remember being on on the bike, and I think I was 40k in um and it was a 90k ride. Uh and I I remember going for a bit of a just a low point um and was thinking arse is hurting, you've still got 60k or 50k left to do. Uh, but then came round the corner and saw this amazing um vineyard and castle, and then my mood was then immediately lifted. Um, and I think that the the further you are into an event, the more tired you are, the harder it is to get control of that subconscious that's constantly trying to drag you down.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah, yeah. And and and like I said earlier, it gets a lot of people. They don't know how to deal with those those lows, and they're gonna happen in these long races. I mean, they happen in the marathon. I I've had them in a half marathon when you're pushing it, like, well, I could just slow down a little bit and this wouldn't hurt as bad. But it's like, nope, we gotta stick to the plan.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

And so I don't know about you, but I like I find shorter races actually harder than longer ones. Oh, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

I'd rather run a hundred miler all day in a 5k.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

The uh the triathlon club locally, they do they do lots of races, and towards the end of the season they do some sprint races, which is um it's a 750 meter swim, 15 kilometers on the bike, and then a 4k run. And for you know, my heart rate is you know, zone literally top of zone five the whole time. When I get onto that run, because running's my my sport of the three, it's just like redlining the whole way. And I finish, I'm like, oh my god, give me give me a a more endurance rate any day.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

I've done some I've done some sprint triathlons, and yeah, I understand 100% what what you're talking about. Yeah, it's it's that high heart rate the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Definitely. So uh let's talk about discipline now. A lot of people look at athletes like you and and assume that that it's talent, that you're just naturally got a natural ability, but often the real story is actually discipline. How much of your success would you attribute to natural ability versus the consistency and discipline?

SPEAKER_00 21:42

I think I have about 2% natural ability. I am not built to be a runner. I was built to be a bodybuilder. I I still have tons of muscle. I'm I'm a bigger dude. Like I I call my my thighs my thunder thighs, but I can still get under a bar and scream. And so I I just I have I have big thighs. I'm just a bigger dude when it's like I I'm 5'8, like 185, 190. And so if that you know gives you, you know, any indication of like my size. I would say for like physical ability of running about 2%, but I am extremely stubborn up here, and so I I push myself to to to do what needs to be done to get the job done, and so that's where the other 98% fills in. Uh it it well, I would say let's let's let's say it's about two percent natural ability, eight percent motivation, and then ninety percent discipline, because you do have to have a little bit of motivation in there, but I think people get confused a lot with motivation versus discipline.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And what do you do on days when when your motivation just isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

That's when the discipline comes in. I have to have a training plan, and I have to if I don't have a training plan, I won't follow anything, and I'll just kind of be loosey-goosey and just go out there and run what I think I need to run. But I I have to have a training plan, and I love having a training plan because it keeps me disciplined. I'll I have a coach and so I my she fills out my two-week plan, and so I know like every day what I'm doing for two weeks, and it and it it it's a no-brainer. Get up, usually it's first thing in the morning. I wake up at 4 a.m. before the family gets up, and I I run what I need to run, and then I get ready to go to work, go to work, but I I don't like to lose time with the family, and so I make the sacrifice to to get up a little bit earlier to get my run in before before everybody else gets up. And then that way in the afternoon, like if the wife wants to go on a walk with the daughter and dog, then I'm not, oh, I gotta go run a 10K to get my training in, but I've already done it, so I have the freedom to to spend time with family, and so yeah, it it takes discipline to wake up at 4 a.m. every day and go run. I'll tell you that. Yeah, there's zero motivation in the morning at 4 a.m. to to jump either outside or I do have a treadmill in my garage. And so a lot of times I hit the treadmill during the week because of danger on the roads and that type stuff. But yeah, it takes a lot of discipline to to get up and go run at 4 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

I I I understand that, and and and discipline and consistency is so key. I um it's going back to taking control of your subconscious. So I I've got an ice bath in my garden, it's just one of these tubs that you fill with water and chuck a load of ice in, and and and I I I try and go in it at least four times a week. Um and I and I'll do that. I'll get up early. And and what your subconscious, particularly when it when it's been cold and it's rainy, there's nothing more unappealing than getting out of a warm bed to go in the garden in my pants and get into a bucket of ice. But now that the um the mornings are starting to get lighter out there this morning at six and the sun is just coming up, it's still cold, of course, that's the whole point. Um, but once you've done it, you feel like you can conquer anything in the day, you just silence that little voice that's saying, Stay in bed half an hour, it's warm. Yep, 100%. That's you have to get up. I do indeed, yeah. And certainly I know what you mean about training in the mornings. So when I was doing training for for the marathon, the local marathon last year, uh, because it was uh in October, so it was still light in the mornings. I would wake up at half five and do my long run. I'm coming home about half eight, nine o'clock, just as everyone's waking up. And you feel good for the day then. You can go and enjoy the rest of the day. Whereas when you got it in your head, oh, I still need to go and do 30k, it's it's not it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yeah, yeah, I gotta get it done early. I have a lot of friends out here that um don't have kids, and so they can sleep in. And both both the husband and wife are both endurance athletes, and so they're regularly like, oh, let's go at like 10 or 11 o'clock. And I'm like, No, I'm already done halfway done with my day by 10 o'clock. I'm up at four still. No, I'm and so I've I've tried to transition a lot of people to early morning running. And then after they do it a couple times, they're like, Man, I have the whole day to to do things, and I'm like, Yeah, it's pretty nice, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

And cycling as well. So when I at the moment my my bike is actually in the in the bedroom attached to a turbo trainer, but but when I start going cycling again, uh I go out early morning and another there's no dickheads on the road if you get them over there, but people who just think that cyclists shouldn't be on the road, so it's much safer so you can enjoy the ride. Uh, and then also if I cycle east and watch the sun rising as well, it's just absolutely magical way to start the day.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, I 100% agree. You gotta you gotta get up early. I don't know what the cycling thing is, I don't I don't recognize what that is now.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

You have to go on one of those um on one of those ultra bike rides, put the fat snow tires on see how you get on.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yeah, those are fun. They're a lot of fun. Um I I do have a bike and I do uh I ride it twice a year. But yeah, I have ridden a uh the fat tire bikes and they are a lot of fun. I have a really good friend of mine who um he unfortunately had to pull out of the ITI, but he was doing the 350 for his first time this year, and just watching his training was it was incredible. It's just a lot of fun to watch people go out there and suffer, but they they suffer just as long as we do.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

They do. So that there's a British guy, um chap called Spencer Matthews, and he's reinvented himself as an ultra athlete. He's done various challenges, he's done the marathon disabler, um, and the one he's done recently, he set himself a challenge of doing a uh an iron distance triathlon on every continent within the month. Started off in in Europe, no problem at all there. And I think the hardest one was when he went to Antarctica swimming in a uh seven or eight mil thick wetsuit in water infested with killer whales and various other sea creatures, to then trying to ride 180 miles, um, sorry, 180k um on a bike with the fat snow tires with something else.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

So yeah, so funny. Different different environments, like from going from Europe where you can just ride a road bike and 180k is done pretty quickly to to on snow and ice, and that that's gonna take you almost all day, probably.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

I think it took him longer than that, so yeah, probably. So in endurance sports, um from my experience and and talking to others has has a way of reshaping a person. So, how would you say that your your journey has actually changed the way you show up in everyday life and as a man, as a partner, uh as a friend and a father?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, I I I get asked that question a lot, and I I think the answer kind of varies sometimes, but I think that you take everyday life and some of the things that come up in them, and they're small things, right? Everybody, you know, people that don't do endurance races or don't know how to deal with problems that arise, uh, don't know how to handle the little small things. But when something comes up at work or at home and it's it's just like, okay, yeah, we'll we'll take care of it. It's not not that big of a deal. And I think that you you've learned how to problem solve through the situations that you've put yourself in, you've paid to put yourself in through these endurance races, like you, when you got lost and you had to pull out the map. Like if you would have just freaked out and and stopped, right? Like you would have hated yourself for it and like, oh, I can't believe I did that. But you worked through it, you learned through the situation, okay, I'm I'm lost, but here's how I get my back myself back into it. You problem solved, it was no big deal, you finished the race. And I think it's the same thing when it comes to life. Like you have something's gonna come up at home, something's gonna come up at work, right? But it's just like how you handle it and the problem solving skills that you've developed through these endurance races makes it so much easier, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah, I would agree. And and I can see, is that your medal rack behind you?

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah, I got a that's mine and my wife's. We share it. Um, and then cups and then the buckles are right there.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah, no, it's great. If um, so if if endurance racing and and racing altogether disappeared tomorrow, if the medals and the finishing lines were gone, um, who are you underneath it all, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, I think, you know, I I I will admit that I do I do enjoy getting a buckle from a hundred mile race. It's it's one of the one of the cool perks of running hundred milers. I wear my buckles all the time, but I think that I still enjoy going out and running with friends. I'm uh an extreme extrovert. I grab energy and gain energy from running with people. I love it. I will run by myself because not every day you can go on a group run with people. So I do run a lot by myself, but I do enjoy running with people so much, and I think that that's what it's about. It's about even though you're out there suffering for a couple hours on a long run, but if you're able to talk and have fun, you know, the the miles just tick by and the time ticks by, and I and I love going on runs with people. And so if the metals, the buckles, everything went away, I think it would still it would still find me joy to go out and go on a a 20-mile long run with my friends. And I just out there suffering together, it's just there's nothing like it.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

It connects people in a different way, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 30:24

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, and and we um I mean I discussed this on another podcast as well. So a lot of my friendships uh were made through my uh sort of 20s when we used to go partying and raving and all that sort of thing, and you form really strong friendship bonds, but then kind of life changes and and it's you know, meeting people and meeting three people people through families and whatever else is is one way, but you don't really form that bond, but go on a on a long run with someone, particularly when it's hard conditions or tough terrain, and you finished, and and again that we we do this locally as well, you know, sea swims during midwinter when you can go in the water and swim in in seven degree water and come out, you you kind of feel like a bit of a bond with someone, and I I I love that as well. Suffering together, suffering together, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Uh that's my my pal who rode the Atlantic was with his friend for 53 days in a little rowing boat, one cabin. Uh yeah, they're they're their bond is strong now.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, I would not doubt that.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

So some people listening to this podcast uh would be my target group who I work with in my coaching group, which is usually men in their 40s. Some of them will possibly feel stuck, disconnected from the person who they used to be when they were younger, or perhaps unsure of where to begin on their fitness journey. Um, if you were to be speaking with with them right now, where should they start?

SPEAKER_00 31:40

If you're starting out running, just go out and run. Don't listen to all the social media that you're gonna hear of if you're not a real runner unless you run a sub-three marathon, or you need these shoes to run fast, or you need this pack to carry all of your hydration and nutrition, just go run. I always tell people that are starting out running, go slow. Go slower than what you think you need to. I see so many people that are like, I used to run, but I would get hurt. Well, you're probably not hurt, you're probably just running way too fast, way too soon, and your body doesn't know how to heal or handle that. And you know, use lifting for a reference because I have a lot of lifting friends. It's like you wouldn't load 405 on the on the squat rack and just go squat it, right? You would warm up to it and then squat it, right? You didn't start out squatting 405, you squatted 135, you know, 225, and you built yourself up to it. Running is the exact same. You have to build yourself up to these speeds, to these paces. Stop worrying about pace, just go out and run.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

That's great advice. And don't worry about your time, don't worry about your pace, don't worry about what it looks like on Strava. Don't even worry about your heart rates for the early days, just go and run and get that kind of base fitness. And also keep going, keep pushing through because so many people, and I see people at the gym as well. I've been an avid gym goer for most of my life, and people will write, I'm gonna get strong, and they'll come in, they'll do a few sessions, and they'll try and push it too much, they'll hurt themselves, their body will hurt, and then they never go back. It's it's try trying to start off too big. Yep, 100%. Uh just go have fun. Exactly. Have fun. We're coming back to that again, aren't we? Have have fun. Gotta have fun. So on this podcast, we talk a lot about turning point moments. I mean, the podcast is called The Turning Point. Uh so those moments where comfort ends and and we decide to step forward in instead of step back. Can you share a moment in your life where everything could have gone one way, but you chose a harder path and how it changed who you became?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

That's good. I like that. Mile 30 of the Bighorn 100. Um, it was an unexpectedly hot day. It was uh a hundred plus degrees. Um, I don't it was only my second hundred. I don't think I was fueling properly. I was taking in enough hydration, but I think I wasn't fueling property properly to the to combat the weather, the conditions, the climbing. For reference, it's a hundred-mile race with um about eighteen thousand foot of climbing. You you hit peaks all the way up to I believe nine or ten thousand feet. So you kind of climb all the way back up and then run back down, type thing. So so it's a it's a mountain race, right? Um I'm mile thirty. I'm not really feeling great. I have a 17 mile, 4,000 foot climb in front of me. I actually had my dad there as my as my crew member because my wife was running the 50K the next day. So she was at home resting for the 50K. So my dad was there as my crew member and a couple of my friends. And I sat down at the 30-mile checkpoint um aid station. I was eating some food, started feeling better because food always kind of makes you kind of brings you back to life. Getting that sugar in you kind of will bring you out of a high or a low. Uh so I started feeling good. I I got up and I was about ready to leave, and I turned right back around and I threw up everything that I had just eaten. And I always I always think back to that moment. I I threw up, and there was never a question about I'm I'm sick, I don't want to continue on. I continued on. It was very slow moving for those 17 miles, and it was it was a real, it was a hard push. And and we pretty much walked the entire 17 miles. It was uphill. There was a lot of runnable spots, but and then at that that last two or three miles before you get to the checkpoint at mile 48, you run into what Bighorn's famous for is the mud. And it's like ice water mud. So it's like you're high up, so the snow, it's it's in kind of mid-June type. So it's it's hot during the day, it's cold at night, but higher up, there's a lot of snow. The snow's melting, and then it's creating this ice water basically. And so you're running through two miles of mud and water, and so that's even more miserable. And then you get to the turnaround point and you got to run back through it, right? And so um, I got to the checkpoint, and it's I'm a couple hours ahead of the the cutoff, but not very far ahead of the cutoff. And my dad told me he's like, You're not fucking quitting. And I was like, All right, I like that, let's do it. So I had picked up a buddy at mile 30, they'll let you pick someone up at mile 30, a pacer. So um, he was supposed to pick me up at the 48 mile mark, but he saw how bad of uh a situation I was in. So he did 30 all the way up to 48, and then he ran back to that other point um now at like 68, 70 miles. Um once we got to the turnaround point, got some got some food, got got resupplied, turned around back back around and went through that mud section again. We got to this that next aid station about four miles from the turnaround point. I just kind of had this like click, and I don't know what it was, but I started running and I finished the race, and the first half of the race is 48 miles, the second half of the race is fifty-two miles. I negative split the second half of the race. Yeah. And so I always look back to that moment at mile 30 when I'm throwing up. It would have been very easy just to quit right there.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

And I kept the excuse then. You oh I'm unwell, I've thrown up, I've got to stop.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

100%. It just it wasn't even a thought in my mind. And uh there was lots of moments where uh it wouldn't have been wouldn't have been a big deal to just step off the course and go home.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

But yeah, I was able to to pull through and was able to get a buckle, and it's it's one of my favorite races still to date. It's one of the hardest that I worked for um as a finish, and um, you know, I just had a real deep appreciation for everything that happened on that.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

And a well-earned buckle.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

For sure. I actually think I have the buckle on right now. It's it's still my favorite buckle to this day.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

So um a couple more questions now. So so our lives are ultimately shaped by the standards that we hold ourselves to, particularly when nobody's watching. Uh, what's one personal standard that you refuse to compromise on no matter what?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

That's a great question. I think the the standard would be to uh to get up early in the morning. That's a that's a standard that I've set with myself. I'm going to I'm gonna get my runs in before my family wakes up. And um, you know, I think that that giving time back to them, because it's very easy, you know, the family wakes up at nine o'clock on a weekend, like it's very easy to be like, oh, the sun's up at 8 30, so I'm gonna go take off and run during the sunlight hours. But how much time are you taking away from them? And so getting up at 4 a.m. and going out and suffering at dark in the dark the whole time, just to to be able to spend time with family. And I think that's a that's an unwavering um a piece that I I'm not gonna give up because uh because of my hobbies. And so I can still find time to do the things that I enjoy doing at the same time spending time with families.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

I think it's it's a good example to set to them as well. So my my eldest daughter is 13. Um and and she uh I've I've always been the one to put her to bed. Most of the time she loves me putting her to bed, and and that routine has continued, and I and I cherish that because I know that she wouldn't want me to put her to bed too much longer. Um but now, age 13, she likes to go into bed later and later, and I like to get up early, and I and I'm saying to her, Come on, can we just get you into bed now? Because I'm I'm up early in the morning. And she goes, Yeah, but you don't need to get up in early in the morning, you don't need to go out for a run or get in your ice bath at half five. No, I know I don't need to, but I said it I choose to, and I choose to because it's discipline. Uh, and and uh and I just think that that's a good example. Then I'll, you know, sometimes I will go for my run early morning and I'll come back and then I'll go and wake her up morning. I've just got back from my run. And I think just letting them see that, you know, it is yeah, because my wife as well, she's very into her sport, she does competitive uh rowing, coastal rowing, and and she's often up early in training. And again, I think it's just such a great example to set set your kids.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Uh so just last question now, message to the listeners. So many people listening uh are capable of achieving far more than they currently believe that they can, but something is holding them back. Um, if you could leave them with one message about discipline, courage, or stepping into the life they're capable of, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 39:54

It's very simple. You can do it. It's it's that easy. You can do it. I am a I'm a prime example of a subpar athlete that finds his way into the mid-pack, um, you know, back of the pack, mid-pack, oftentimes. Um, I'm not the example of what a runner looks like, but we get it done. I enjoy running, I have fun with it. Find some people that enjoy the sport that you're into, have fun doing it, and and and push yourself. You can do it. I tell people all the time, if you can run a marathon, you can run a hundred-mile race. And they find that it's that's absolutely mind-blowing. But the mileage, training mileage is not that far off from each other. The the hours, I mean, it changes a little bit like we talked about, but if you're interested in ultra marathon running and you've run a marathon, I wholeheartedly believe that you can do it. Yeah, I believe so as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

It it it's it's a mindset and and the self-limiting beliefs. And and we talk about this on on other podcasts as well, and also with my my coaching as well. You know, and I say in the triathlon world as in the triathlon world as well, people who tell themselves I'm no good at running, um, I'm always slow on the run, my my legs always hurt on the run. You're telling yourself that's what's going to happen if you can change that narrative. It's not just change the narrative, it's change the belief. And you can't do it overnight.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I I stand by that all the time.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Awesome. Right. Well, um, I've I've I've really enjoyed it, Justin. I think we've had a great session. We've covered a lot, uh, and it's been fantastic having you on.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on. It's been great. Right.